Reference:2006-09-16 Eric L Town Hall discussing user-created content

(09/16 09:23:52) Chat.log started...
(09/16 09:49:32) Whilyam: Shorah, Eric
(09/16 09:49:39) Marten: Welcome, Eric L
(09/16 09:49:40) inspector gadget: hi Ericl
(09/16 09:49:44) _predator_ cathces fly and almost dies
(09/16 09:50:02) inspector gadget: you should use a sworf
(09/16 09:50:05) _predator_: *hack hack hack*
(09/16 09:50:17) Eric L: hi everyone. :)
(09/16 09:50:17) inspector gadget: masterchief stop
(09/16 09:50:20) Eric L: sorry I'm early. ;)
(09/16 09:50:20) inspector gadget: hi
(09/16 09:50:21) _predator_: mmmmmmmm yummy
(09/16 09:50:25) Mattias wonders how user created content is going to work...
(09/16 09:50:25) Kimmie Hawk waves
(09/16 09:50:29) Gadren: Hi Eric L
(09/16 09:50:30) Whilyam waves
(09/16 09:50:34) inspector gadget waves
(09/16 09:50:39) Eric L waves
(09/16 09:51:23) Eric L: heh...
(09/16 09:52:06) Mattias: (wave
(09/16 09:52:10) Mattias waves
(09/16 09:52:21) Marten: Note to Liaisons: This morning I would like to do a little filming of the town hall from the viewpoint of the podium, before the discussion begins if that is OK. :)
(09/16 09:52:34) Mattias: sure
(09/16 09:52:40) Mattias waves
(09/16 09:52:49) J'Kla: :)
(09/16 09:53:06) Whilyam: Notice how he said to LIAISONS..
(09/16 09:53:12) Eric L: well, I hope you'll forgive me if I get bumbly. This is the first time I've done this sort of thing, so I'm a bit of a greenhorn. ;)
(09/16 09:53:16) Mattias: oh
(09/16 09:53:43) Marten: :) Whilyam, true, but it's also reasonable that I have others consent before I film them.
(09/16 09:54:00) Mattias: :)
(09/16 09:54:37) CAGrayWolf: Everyone ... please activate the /autoshout coomand ... if you haven't done so already.
(09/16 09:54:45) autoshout activated
(09/16 09:55:02) _predator_: Ok
(09/16 09:55:05) Whilyam: Done
(09/16 09:55:10) Kimmie Hawk: done
(09/16 09:55:10) inspector gadget: done
(09/16 09:55:14) _predator_: whoa
(09/16 09:55:14) Mattias: okay, done
(09/16 09:55:15) Shonda: done
(09/16 09:55:21) Eric L: yeah. A handy addition, that. :)
(09/16 09:55:28) _predator_: All my omments r in exclamations
(09/16 09:55:36) inspector gadget: really
(09/16 09:55:37) _predator_: Thats weird
(09/16 09:55:40) Eric L: i gather that's a reminder that you have autoshout on?
(09/16 09:55:48) CAGrayWolf: Yes
(09/16 09:55:54) Marten: Correct
(09/16 09:55:57) Whilyam: Yes
(09/16 09:55:58) _predator_: i'm wispering
(09/16 09:56:05) inspector gadget: im sneaking
(09/16 09:56:18) _predator_: everybody have a seat 4 the pic
(09/16 09:56:20) Eric L: Everything I say Has Such Intensity (I feel like William Shatner) ;)
(09/16 09:56:25) Marten: I'm not really shouting, I just have augmented lungs
(09/16 09:56:41) _predator_: rOFL
(09/16 09:57:15) Gadren: wohba...
(09/16 09:57:23) inspector gadget: wohba?
(09/16 09:57:24) _predator_: Huh
(09/16 09:57:29) Whilyam: Whoba
(09/16 09:57:32) Eric L: short for wohbanobongu. :)
(09/16 09:57:35) Mattias: tjofadderittan lambo
(09/16 09:57:36) Gadren: never tried autoshout before...
(09/16 09:57:40) CAGrayWolf: Ok everyone. This meeting is slightly different ... in that it will be more open discussion rather than the usual format. Please be respectful of when others are talking during the meeting.
(09/16 09:57:41) Marten: Three chears for Wohba Three cheers for Top Men
(09/16 09:57:46) inspector gadget: cowabunga
(09/16 09:57:47) _predator_: I can't understand myself
(09/16 09:58:07) Whilyam thinks the Liaisons need a gavel :P
(09/16 09:58:16) Eric L: still got a few minutes yet to wait for stragglers.
(09/16 09:58:17) _predator_: :-P
(09/16 09:58:17) inspector gadget: gavel??????
(09/16 09:58:25) _predator_: hammer
(09/16 09:58:30) inspector gadget: stragglers??????
(09/16 09:58:31) Eric L: yeah. Something to bop me on the head with when I get out of line. ;)
(09/16 09:58:33) J'Kla: as in judge
(09/16 09:58:45) _predator_: or u can throw it at people
(09/16 09:59:00) _predator_: Dodgeball
(09/16 09:59:19) Mattias: i'll just jump to pass time
(09/16 09:59:23) inspector gadget: im gonna stand closer
(09/16 09:59:23) Eric L: "At the sound of the Bahro scream, the time will be..."
(09/16 09:59:41) _predator_: *i beeive i can fly*
(09/16 09:59:41) CAGrayWolf: Eric will be asking questions and looking for your comments and feedback.
(09/16 09:59:41) Marten: 8:59 AM.
(09/16 09:59:45) inspector gadget: 5 o clock in the nl
(09/16 09:59:58) _predator_: Sry
(09/16 10:00:27) Mattias sneezes
(09/16 10:00:31) Eric L: Oh yeah. I forgot about that whole sitting memory leak thing. :)
(09/16 10:00:36) inspector gadget: predator come stand here
(09/16 10:00:46) _predator_: Hi
(09/16 10:00:52) Eric L waves
(09/16 10:00:58) Whilyam: Everyone please stand still..
(09/16 10:01:06) _predator_ waves
(09/16 10:01:14) inspector gadget: i......cant.......breathe
(09/16 10:01:25) _predator_: Sux2bu
(09/16 10:01:30) CAGrayWolf: Shorah everyone I'd like to welcome our guest speaker today ... EricL.
(09/16 10:01:30) inspector gadget: ?
(09/16 10:01:35) Gadren: if we can all refrain from jumping/using emotes, that would be great
(09/16 10:01:42) inspector gadget: sorry
(09/16 10:01:48) Whilyam cheers without moving
(09/16 10:01:51) _predator_: How bout dancing?
(09/16 10:01:58) inspector gadget: emote
(09/16 10:02:01) CAGrayWolf: Eric ... would you like to tell us your role and what you are hoping for out of this meeting?
(09/16 10:02:10) Marten: OK. going to hop up here and get a little film, discreetly.
(09/16 10:02:34) Eric L: Okay, well, first of all, this isn't going to be your standard town hall this time.
(09/16 10:02:58) Eric L: Usually you guys do most of the asking and we do most of the answering, but this time we're looking for feedback. :)
(09/16 10:03:06) inspector gadget: ? its my first and its already special
(09/16 10:03:15) Mattias: mine too
(09/16 10:03:56) Eric L: We've been looking into making it possible for people within Uru to create their own content. We know that people want to create within the world, however
(09/16 10:04:09) Eric L: we don't necessarily know what people want to create, or how important it is to people.
(09/16 10:05:00) Eric L: I do need to stress that development for this is a ways off yet. Right now everyone's head down working hard for launch.
(09/16 10:05:00) inspector gadget: its really important
(09/16 10:05:08) _predator_: ...
(09/16 10:05:45) Eric L: So right now it's purely research. However this will give us more of an idea of what to concentrate on when the time comes.
(09/16 10:05:56) _predator_: i hafta go soon. can i join this hood?
(09/16 10:06:44) _predator_: Plz
(09/16 10:06:47) CAGrayWolf: No Predator ... this hood doesn't really have any members.
(09/16 10:06:47) inspector gadget: sent him an invite
(09/16 10:06:56) inspector gadget: oh yea
(09/16 10:07:15) Eric L: Now, the idea of user-created content is very open-ended at the moment. We don't want to stifle anyone's ideas by pinning it down too firmly.
(09/16 10:07:34) Gadren: While the meeting is going on, please move off-topic discussion to PMs. Thanks
(09/16 10:08:02) Eric L: So, first I'd like to go round the group and see what sort of things you imagine creating within the world.
(09/16 10:08:23) _predator_: What do u mean
(09/16 10:08:37) _predator_: Ru guys like programmers?
(09/16 10:09:00) Eric L: I'm not, but I'll be reporting to some of them. :)
(09/16 10:09:05) _predator_: Kool
(09/16 10:09:08) inspector gadget: create your own age you start with a pre-set age,and you can change it
(09/16 10:09:26) _predator_: How bout having a few baroh just standing around, wings andall
(09/16 10:09:30) Eric L: Interesting. So rather than starting from scratch, you want a basic Age you can modify?
(09/16 10:09:31) Mattias: Start with an ocean, perhaps...
(09/16 10:09:39) J'Kla: Personaly I'm looking to create conditional episodic released text of the type we allready have a beta test for
(09/16 10:09:43) Whilyam: I would like to be able to create Ages more easily from inside the game
(09/16 10:09:49) _predator_: Barho gaurds
(09/16 10:10:09) Mattias: An ocean seems like the base of an age...
(09/16 10:10:11) inspector gadget: like eder kemo,and you add bahro and some houses for your buddies
(09/16 10:10:15) Gadren: one thing i would like would be to make Relto a kind of center for Age customization, where people can make their own relto pages and give them to friends...
(09/16 10:10:20) Whilyam: Using a system sort of like what I've seen in the Spore demos
(09/16 10:10:31) inspector gadget: yes,a new menu for it perhaps???
(09/16 10:10:33) Gadren: one problem i have with Relto right now is that all the pages are pretty much "have something or have nothing"
(09/16 10:10:42) inspector gadget: ?
(09/16 10:10:53) Myridean: Does the DRC have a collection development policy for the restored collection of ages?
(09/16 10:11:00) Gadren: it's not like people are going to choose not to have a tree, or a fancy roof, if there's no alternatives...
(09/16 10:11:14) Mattias: true that
(09/16 10:11:20) _predator_: How bout a well that has a linking bood back 2 the nexus in the bucket
(09/16 10:11:30) Whilyam: Yeah, maybe like different types of trees. A new shape of hut, etc.
(09/16 10:11:40) inspector gadget: new clothes
(09/16 10:11:43) Gadren: what i mean is that Relto development is rather linear, where people get one relto page, then another...i'd like to see things where you have to choose what to put on limited space, so you can really customize the age
(09/16 10:11:47) Eric L: Okay, so what I'm hearing is that you'd like to not only create new places, but create new objects within existing places, is that it?
(09/16 10:11:54) _predator_: Yah spikes and studs
(09/16 10:12:09) Gadren: that way, it really branches out and it becomes what yeesha said about it being an individual relto
(09/16 10:12:12) Myridean: For instance, personal ages were not part of the library collection? But will be they included in the New Writers of D'ni library
(09/16 10:12:15) inspector gadget: a bowtie if its a birthday
(09/16 10:12:23) _predator_: Yeah good idea
(09/16 10:12:35) _predator_: Each member has a hut
(09/16 10:13:02) _predator_: And at christmas lights appear and when it's their b-day then there' gifts inside
(09/16 10:13:02) Mattias: Individual Realto is fine, but what about new ages? I'd like to be able to make those...
(09/16 10:13:14) J'Kla: We have allready prooved we were able to have new text in books a new story and release of each chapter was based on actions eluded to in the text.
(09/16 10:13:15) Eric L: Myridean, I tend to think of the Nexus as a sort of library. Are you thinking of something beyond that?
(09/16 10:13:48) Myridean: Something more browsable perhaps like a real library with bookspines occupying the spaces
(09/16 10:14:01) Eric L: J'kla, so what you'd like to do is create journals that other people can read?
(09/16 10:14:10) _predator_: Yeha
(09/16 10:14:14) Mattias: that, yes
(09/16 10:14:17) Whilyam: I would like to be able to do that as well
(09/16 10:14:22) J'Kla: Yes but conditional
(09/16 10:14:23) _predator_: Each person has his own customizeable journal
(09/16 10:14:35) inspector gadget: cool
(09/16 10:14:39) Marten: So, you're asking for MySpace or LiveJournal, in Uru? :)
(09/16 10:14:39) Whilyam: Perhaps even be able to write a note and lay it on the ground so others could find it.
(09/16 10:14:41) Mattias: How about the ability to write notes and drop them?
(09/16 10:14:46) Mattias: haha
(09/16 10:14:48) Gadren: I agree; it would be nice if we could write things on paper and journals and leave them for others to find
(09/16 10:14:50) J'Kla: you complete certain actions to release the next chapter
(09/16 10:14:56) inspector gadget: ah
(09/16 10:15:05) _predator_: uru myspace would b kool
(09/16 10:15:05) inspector gadget: like dragonfable
(09/16 10:15:07) J'Kla: we wanted to link it to fixed marker missions
(09/16 10:15:17) Eric L: Ah, so you're thinking a bit more like Sharper's journal in the expansion packs, J'kla?
(09/16 10:15:19) _predator_: Ick dragonfable
(09/16 10:15:27) inspector gadget: ?
(09/16 10:15:48) J'Kla: we were able to use some of the stuff lying around like the feathers
(09/16 10:15:49) Myridean: Right now, links to new ages are only being added as pages to a single book in their Relto
(09/16 10:16:12) Eric L: (Apologies if I don't respond to someone's suggestion. This scrolls pretty fast. I am logging it though so I won't miss it on the second pass. ;) )
(09/16 10:16:38) _predator_: How bout a soccer stadium w/a each ball or other soccer like ball in it
(09/16 10:16:39) J'Kla: we dropped a simple clue on sharpers journal everything after that was new journals
(09/16 10:16:57) inspector gadget: presents you get when its cristmas or halloween
(09/16 10:17:10) J'Kla: we used the city journeys
(09/16 10:17:14) _predator_: Yeah like clothes or ages
(09/16 10:17:17) J'Kla: cloths
(09/16 10:17:32) inspector gadget: i would like that
(09/16 10:17:38) J'Kla: journey cloths currently hidden in the city
(09/16 10:17:43) inspector gadget: i never played it :(
(09/16 10:17:50) inspector gadget: thats cool
(09/16 10:18:06) Gadren: i think it would be great if we could upload patterns for shirts and the like...but only if there was some way it could be done without having to download a million updates all the time
(09/16 10:18:06) inspector gadget: the guild
(09/16 10:18:15) J'Kla: I wanted to make use of the hidden number in the picture in the city office
(09/16 10:18:16) Eric L: Okay, I should mention that we're talking about things that players can create themselves, rather than things that Cyan creates.
(09/16 10:18:29) _predator_: How bout a mansion where everybody has a room
(09/16 10:18:33) Marten: And provent people from uploading offensive content, Gadren.
(09/16 10:18:40) Marten: Er, prevent.
(09/16 10:19:01) Whilyam: for Engberg
(09/16 10:19:01) Mattias: who would check that...?
(09/16 10:19:02) _predator_: Spam & vulgarity
(09/16 10:19:06) Eric L: That is another thing I wanted to ask about. How would people want potentially offensive content to be handled?
(09/16 10:19:09) _predator_: G2g sry by
(09/16 10:19:14) Eric L: Would people want to filter it themselves, and if so how?
(09/16 10:19:17) Mattias: like what?
(09/16 10:19:19) _predator_: Cya l8er
(09/16 10:19:22) J'Kla: at the moment we can only use cyans droppings for flags
(09/16 10:19:26) Gadren: I like that idea, predator...I remember playing the old text-based Writers of D'ni game, and enjoying how each guild member had his own customizable room
(09/16 10:19:30) Whilyam: Perhaps a Guild to oversee that?
(09/16 10:19:41) inspector gadget: yes,THW GUILD
(09/16 10:19:41) Mattias: yeah
(09/16 10:19:51) Whilyam: All submissions to the Guild who approves them and sends them to Cyan to apply
(09/16 10:19:51) J'Kla: the stuff that was around when live one died
(09/16 10:19:55) inspector gadget: in the city,close to the thent
(09/16 10:20:00) Gadren: i don't know how comfortable i am with the idea of people policing others like that, whilyam...
(09/16 10:20:11) Myridean: Guilds with different ratings
(09/16 10:20:15) Whilyam: It's either they ploice it or Cyan does.
(09/16 10:20:19) Gadren: we've had some problems in UU before when people wanted to be morality vigilantes...
(09/16 10:20:19) Whilyam: police*
(09/16 10:20:30) inspector gadget: or that we can cook
(09/16 10:20:32) Whilyam: This would be sanctioned by Cyan, however
(09/16 10:20:32) Mattias: But there would have to be someone to check new ages before they were uploaded, either way
(09/16 10:20:41) Whilyam: Not some nut deciding what's right or not
(09/16 10:20:46) Eric L: At the very least to make sure they don't blow up on people. :)
(09/16 10:20:47) Shonda: It's not fair to lay a policing job on Cyan. Approval... maybe.
(09/16 10:20:53) inspector gadget: someone from UU
(09/16 10:21:22) Whilyam: A simple guild could even simply enforce rules made by Cyan on the content.
(09/16 10:21:23) J'Kla: United shards were onboard for my story but it's on hold becuse of live2
(09/16 10:21:24) Marten: I think Whilyam's idea is inevitable unless Cyan takes on that task, and I'm not sure if we'd want Cyan to be devoting their resources to such things. It's a tough topic.
(09/16 10:21:28) Eric L: Okay, I think this is probably a good thing to talk about. Let's get some ideas going on how people can be protected from offensive content while other people can still be free to create.
(09/16 10:21:43) Myridean: On another MMO I currently subscribe to, people conduct themselves to conduct if there is harassment then it should be dealt by a petition to a GM
(09/16 10:21:52) inspector gadget: your own filter
(09/16 10:22:16) Gadren: perhaps when someone sees someone wearing a shirt, they can move their mouse over it, and get info on the pattern...then, they could click a button which marked it as "safe" or "not safe"
(09/16 10:22:21) J'Kla: We had indy create a loader that meant that content was server side
(09/16 10:22:22) inspector gadget: you can customize a filter,and you can report people
(09/16 10:22:24) Whilyam: The other way would be to simply post rules and guidelines and have others report bad behavior and let Cyan knock off those who disobey
(09/16 10:22:35) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:22:44) Mattias: yeah
(09/16 10:22:44) Eric L: Okay, I'm seeing three ideas so far. A guild that approves all content, a way for users to report offensive content, and a way for users to be able to choose what they see or don't see.
(09/16 10:22:45) Whilyam: But there's a question over whether people would follow those rules
(09/16 10:22:54) Gadren: then, over time, offensive clothes would get an "unsafe" rating, and for those who choose not to see unsafe content, it shows upas a blank shirt for them
(09/16 10:23:05) inspector gadget: yea
(09/16 10:23:07) Whilyam: Yeah
(09/16 10:23:11) inspector gadget: a filter
(09/16 10:23:15) J'Kla: see server side loader
(09/16 10:23:18) Whilyam: (I seem more enthusiastic then I am :P)
(09/16 10:23:32) Eric L: That's an interesting idea. A way that people can "rate" content they see.
(09/16 10:23:33) Gadren: i go to a website called YTMND where people make humor sites, and you can easily mark a page as SFW or NSFW "(not) safe for work"
(09/16 10:24:09) Reelah: is this being logged?
(09/16 10:24:10) Gadren: there can also be a way to rate content and make those who make really cool ages and clothes well-known
(09/16 10:24:15) Eric L: And then a corresponding filter where people can select the threshold for what they want to or don't want to see.
(09/16 10:24:17) Gadren: i'm logging this meeting...
(09/16 10:24:18) J'Kla: I've got no problem with my stuff going through peer approoval
(09/16 10:24:23) Reelah: ok
(09/16 10:24:24) inspector gadget: yes, like newgrounds
(09/16 10:24:28) Reelah: thaakns gadren
(09/16 10:25:05) Whilyam: Most of this stuff could be implemented now without much intervention from Cyan.
(09/16 10:25:16) Eric L: Would we just want people to flag something as offensive, or would we want people to give both positive and negative ratings?
(09/16 10:25:23) Whilyam: Most of us are moral enough to know what to put and not put on a shirt
(09/16 10:25:23) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:25:24) Reelah: both
(09/16 10:25:29) J'Kla: we do realy need some sort of admin
(09/16 10:25:40) Whilyam: Both
(09/16 10:25:50) Reelah: i have a question
(09/16 10:25:55) Whilyam: So goo people aren't merely not bad, but good
(09/16 10:25:57) inspector gadget: when youre good,you can be a admin
(09/16 10:25:58) Gadren: i think that both would be best...you see a shirt, you're like "that's a cool shirt", and you upvote it...or you're like "eww" and you downvote it ormark it as nsfw
(09/16 10:26:00) Eric L: Okay, Reelah. I'll answer if I can.
(09/16 10:26:12) Reelah: its unrelaped
(09/16 10:26:18) Reelah: whoops
(09/16 10:26:23) Eric L: Hmmm... In that case PM it to me. :)
(09/16 10:26:48) Eric L: Okay, so who likes the idea of a rating system for content?
(09/16 10:26:50) inspector gadget: why not have a couple of good people be admin
(09/16 10:26:58) inspector gadget: yes i like it
(09/16 10:27:03) Mattias: yeah, I like it
(09/16 10:27:03) Shonda: I like it, Eric
(09/16 10:27:05) Whilyam: I do. Along with other ways
(09/16 10:27:07) Gadren: i like it...i just think that by moving approval things to the "free market," if you will, then that removes a lot of busy work from Cyan
(09/16 10:27:14) J'Kla: yes rating is a good call
(09/16 10:27:20) inspector gadget: yehaaaaa
(09/16 10:27:21) Kimmie Hawk: I like it
(09/16 10:27:30) Whilyam: Along with a fan approval process
(09/16 10:27:49) J'Kla: I would prefer a closed group
(09/16 10:27:54) inspector gadget: when its good, everyone can get it
(09/16 10:28:02) Whilyam: If something somehow makes it past that, then the rating system would take care of it
(09/16 10:28:02) J'Kla: ok fan appointed but closed
(09/16 10:28:09) Whilyam: Yeah
(09/16 10:28:17) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:28:22) Whilyam: Not like a wiki or anything
(09/16 10:28:23) Eric L: Okay, what about more than one "level" of approval?
(09/16 10:28:25) Shonda: You could also instigate a time measure to the creation process, like Cyan did with the relto tree.
(09/16 10:28:42) Gadren: what do you mean, Shonda?
(09/16 10:28:43) Eric L: Say, the first one is "doesn't blow up", and another one is "non-offensive"...
(09/16 10:28:48) Whilyam: Sounds good. the Guild approval and then the ratin approval
(09/16 10:28:49) Gadren nods his head
(09/16 10:28:53) Whilyam: ah
(09/16 10:28:56) Whilyam: yeah sounds great
(09/16 10:29:00) Reelah: but the tree growth created major problewms for ssome ppl
(09/16 10:29:01) inspector gadget: cool
(09/16 10:29:01) Shonda: We had to play the game for X amount of time before the tree grew.
(09/16 10:29:13) Whilyam: also perhaps quality?
(09/16 10:29:17) Shonda: It could be the same with adding/creating thing.
(09/16 10:29:18) inspector gadget: yea
(09/16 10:29:19) Myridean: I agree as long as in the end, a client controlled filter enables them to choose the degree of comfort with the content
(09/16 10:29:21) Eric L: Can anyone think of any other approval "levels" that might be appropriate?
(09/16 10:29:27) Whilyam: like screen out the fuzzy bitmaps, etc.?
(09/16 10:29:43) edwin: hello all
(09/16 10:29:43) Reelah: extremely offensive
(09/16 10:29:55) Myridean: ESRB Ratings would be good
(09/16 10:29:57) Gadren: perhaps IC/OOC stuff?
(09/16 10:29:57) inspector gadget: not to bad
(09/16 10:30:04) Whilyam: Perhaps "quality" could replace non-offensive since offensiveness is part of the quality
(09/16 10:30:06) inspector gadget: ic/ooc?
(09/16 10:30:07) Gadren: like, a D'ni-like chair would be IC...
(09/16 10:30:20) Reelah: yes i like the IC/OOC ida
(09/16 10:30:21) Gadren: but a gigantic monster robot would be OOC
(09/16 10:30:29) inspector gadget: yes,it is
(09/16 10:30:36) Whilyam: Not too many applications, though
(09/16 10:30:37) Reelah: in cavern or in charector IG
(09/16 10:30:46) Gadren: by marking ages and objects that way, we could have a degree of control as to how much we want to roleplay
(09/16 10:30:51) Reelah: out of cavern or out of charector
(09/16 10:30:57) inspector gadget: ?
(09/16 10:31:06) Mattias: but we're in the real wqorld. We have to be able to put giant robots on our shirts if wqe like
(09/16 10:31:10) J'Kla: There's things we looked at as rewards for game progress
(09/16 10:31:25) J'Kla: these would also need approoval
(09/16 10:31:34) Eric L: Actually, that is another aspect of Uru Live. You are you. This is the present time. You get to tell your own stories your way. :)
(09/16 10:31:36) inspector gadget: rewards
(09/16 10:31:43) Gadren: oh, i wasn't talking about shirts there, mattias...i mean modelling an object that is a robot
(09/16 10:31:51) Mattias: ah
(09/16 10:31:52) inspector gadget: good idea
(09/16 10:32:07) inspector gadget: like getting a gameboy
(09/16 10:32:13) J'Kla: I have one story that paints its own history
(09/16 10:32:24) inspector gadget: how?
(09/16 10:32:37) J'Kla: it would be nice to allow others to walk through that history
(09/16 10:33:05) inspector gadget: or a age that follows a story
(09/16 10:33:09) Eric L: Sounds interesting. Is it completely independent of the D'ni history?
(09/16 10:33:31) J'Kla: I would also like to do a story that was set in the future of the cavern
(09/16 10:33:45) inspector gadget: like: "he fell" and you fall as well
(09/16 10:33:45) Gadren: and, not only could we have IC/OOC tihngs, but maybe even special featured items/ages which Cyan could approve and work into te canon
(09/16 10:33:45) Reelah: like when it is restored?
(09/16 10:33:49) Eric L: Hmmm... Uru Sci-fi... :)
(09/16 10:33:59) inspector gadget: lol
(09/16 10:34:06) inspector gadget: get a stargate
(09/16 10:34:11) Mattias: I'm not too keen on that idea
(09/16 10:34:13) Reelah: oooooooo
(09/16 10:34:28) Reelah: why?
(09/16 10:34:29) Eric L: Okay, that gets into another thing I wanted to talk about.
(09/16 10:34:30) inspector gadget: and we can go to Atlantis
(09/16 10:34:32) Whilyam: I would also like to find a way to get fan-made storylines in and more accepted.
(09/16 10:34:42) Reelah: yes Eric?
(09/16 10:34:55) Whilyam: It seems these days everyone hates fan stories and so most people make weak stories with no interaction.
(09/16 10:35:13) Eric L: One of the ideas I've heard is for people to have more freedom for stuff they build in private, rather than stuff that's publicly available.
(09/16 10:35:21) inspector gadget: why not have some quests
(09/16 10:35:24) Eric L: How do you feel about that, and how do you think that could work?
(09/16 10:35:30) Reelah: yes
(09/16 10:35:33) Reelah: definatly
(09/16 10:35:37) Whilyam: I'm not sure I understand
(09/16 10:35:38) Gadren: what kinds of things do you mean, Eric?
(09/16 10:35:58) inspector gadget: like THE SIMS
(09/16 10:36:04) Reelah: aaaahhhhhhhh
(09/16 10:36:09) Whilyam: You mean creating new things, not just editing Cyan stuff? Then sure
(09/16 10:36:10) Eric L: Well, say you create some kind of content just for yourself and your friends, but not necessarily want to share it with the whole world.
(09/16 10:36:22) Reelah: yes i like that idea
(09/16 10:36:28) Whilyam: That would be odd
(09/16 10:36:30) inspector gadget: yesgo ahead
(09/16 10:36:33) Shonda: That would be a good idea
(09/16 10:36:39) Whilyam: Why would I make anything if not to share it?
(09/16 10:37:00) Gadren: that would be good, too...
(09/16 10:37:07) Shonda: We could share if we wanted - and others could go/see if they wanted.
(09/16 10:37:09) Myridean: Perhaps some might take offense to an object you make
(09/16 10:37:19) Eric L: Well, say you were making something that may not be fit for public consumption, but fits into your own creative view.
(09/16 10:37:21) Whilyam: How would it be approved, then?
(09/16 10:37:21) Reelah: then dont give it to them
(09/16 10:37:23) Gadren: when making something, you could choose whether it to go to your friends, neighbors, or the world
(09/16 10:37:34) inspector gadget: make your own paintings
(09/16 10:37:42) Reelah: pies
(09/16 10:37:52) Myridean: It could be hood related
(09/16 10:37:52) inspector gadget: food
(09/16 10:37:55) Shonda: Or it could be presented as a linking page and someone could go or not.
(09/16 10:38:01) Whilyam: But if it was offensive then how would it be approved by the fans/guild/whatever?
(09/16 10:38:04) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:38:06) Reelah: oh how about we having usful arms?
(09/16 10:38:23) inspector gadget: or we can lift stuff
(09/16 10:38:27) J'Kla: User interaction with artifacts could be useful
(09/16 10:38:31) Whilyam: Yes
(09/16 10:38:32) Myridean: Just as people get invitations to join a hood you are a member then being a member also enables you to have to access to that content
(09/16 10:38:34) Shonda: The ability to use avatar arms would be nice... to be able to pick up things
(09/16 10:38:44) Gadren: whilyam, i see an approval guild as approving things technically-wise
(09/16 10:38:47) J'Kla: I also have puzzles that are ripe for embedding
(09/16 10:38:50) Reelah: i like that Myridean
(09/16 10:39:00) Whilyam: Who would approve the content itself, then?
(09/16 10:39:04) inspector gadget: me
(09/16 10:39:07) Gadren: we would let the public decide what's offensive and what's not
(09/16 10:39:08) J'Kla: things like the D'niDoku
(09/16 10:39:08) Reelah: lol
(09/16 10:39:16) Whilyam: Ah..
(09/16 10:39:19) Eric L: Well, if it's private to a person or a small group of people, would it still need to be approved?
(09/16 10:39:27) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:39:28) Gadren: and then, over time, offensive things would be pushed away, but if people really wanted to use them in their own group, they could
(09/16 10:39:29) Reelah: i dont really think so
(09/16 10:39:43) Whilyam: Sounds good.
(09/16 10:39:45) Reelah: unless its reallly bad
(09/16 10:39:49) Whilyam: What's private is private
(09/16 10:39:58) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:39:59) Reelah: but this is rated E
(09/16 10:40:00) Gadren: i like that kind of freedom to let people do some things in private that may be offensive to others, as long as it's hidden by default
(09/16 10:40:02) Myridean: It goes back to the hood rating system
(09/16 10:40:19) Mattias: Haha, An X-rated hood :)
(09/16 10:40:20) Reelah: but like no reeeaaalllllyyyy bad things
(09/16 10:40:31) inspector gadget: no bad stuff
(09/16 10:40:37) Eric L: You mean like stuff that crashes Uru? :)
(09/16 10:40:43) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:40:53) Whilyam: Again, offensive stuff is apparently not being filtered, so..
(09/16 10:40:55) J'Kla: x rated hood would bring issues of public accountability
(09/16 10:40:58) Reelah: like political opinions are good
(09/16 10:41:11) Reelah: i mean not crashes but content
(09/16 10:41:17) inspector gadget: bud taking over the world...bad
(09/16 10:41:41) Whilyam: I say everything should be screened for offensive material and bugs by a closed fan panel before being let out into any area where it could be seen by other people.
(09/16 10:41:42) Reelah: or like really sick idease
(09/16 10:41:48) Eric L: Well, what if it weren't so much restricted to a 'hood as to someone's Relto?
(09/16 10:41:57) Whilyam: People can still get to Relto
(09/16 10:42:05) Eric L: Only if personally invited.
(09/16 10:42:11) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:42:13) Whilyam: True. same for a hood though
(09/16 10:42:20) Gadren: Whilyam, i think that having the controls too strict will end up stifling innovation by creating a large backlog
(09/16 10:42:20) inspector gadget: i have a question
(09/16 10:42:34) J'Kla: you have to be aware invited or not minors are still minors
(09/16 10:42:49) Eric L: Very true, J'kla.
(09/16 10:42:51) Reelah: yes
(09/16 10:42:53) inspector gadget: i have a question
(09/16 10:42:58) J'Kla: easier to block this content
(09/16 10:42:59) Reelah: thats what im saying too
(09/16 10:43:03) Whilyam: and Gadren, I don't think banning offensive material will stifle any innovation
(09/16 10:43:04) Reelah: IG?
(09/16 10:43:14) Eric L: Maybe still have ways for people to filter even on private stuff.
(09/16 10:43:18) Eric L: Fire away, Inspector. :)
(09/16 10:43:21) Gadren: true, Whilyam, but having to approve each and every object and design will take forever
(09/16 10:43:22) Reelah: i think the inspector has a question
(09/16 10:43:30) Whilyam: That's why the fans would do it
(09/16 10:43:46) inspector gadget: how are we gonna do all of this stuff anyway?how its gonna fit in?
(09/16 10:44:00) inspector gadget: do we have to download something?
(09/16 10:44:04) J'Kla: thats erics problem
(09/16 10:44:11) J'Kla: lol
(09/16 10:44:12) Eric L: You mean on the technical end?
(09/16 10:44:22) Mattias: Is all user created content going to get stored on public servers?
(09/16 10:44:26) Whilyam: Perhaps those who filter out fan-made content wouldn't have to download it?
(09/16 10:44:42) Whilyam: So those who might have problems downloading all the stuff could shut it off
(09/16 10:44:51) Eric L: I think that's a hurdle to be jumped when development starts. Don't have an answer for you there. :)
(09/16 10:45:04) J'Kla: yes selective download is an option
(09/16 10:45:07) inspector gadget: ok
(09/16 10:45:14) Whilyam: Perhaps even break it down by catagory
(09/16 10:45:24) inspector gadget: like a filter
(09/16 10:45:36) Whilyam: like "guild clothes" on but "member-specific shirts" off
(09/16 10:45:45) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:45:46) Gadren: yah, these kinds of things would be determined when you're uploading your content (category, rating, etc)
(09/16 10:45:58) J'Kla: when we ran our beta it was python the file was e-mailed
(09/16 10:46:02) Reelah: yes
(09/16 10:46:04) Eric L: Yeah, that might could fit into the rating system we talked about earlier.
(09/16 10:46:15) J'Kla: indy wrote a loader that solved the hacker issue
(09/16 10:46:26) Gadren: so you could list it so that, say, "safe for work" items are the only ones that download
(09/16 10:46:27) Reelah: indy the greeter?
(09/16 10:46:37) inspector gadget: indyana jones?
(09/16 10:47:01) J'Kla: indy is a dutch python coder
(09/16 10:47:08) Reelah: ooo
(09/16 10:47:11) J'Kla: a good one
(09/16 10:47:15) inspector gadget: ah,and whats python?
(09/16 10:47:15) Whilyam: Also, a thing to check for in the content might be "originality" so we don't get copies of other artist's works or stuff from outside the Uru world.
(09/16 10:47:34) Reelah: yes
(09/16 10:47:38) Whilyam: To keep people from making a Spongebob world :P
(09/16 10:47:44) Mattias: This is hard..
(09/16 10:47:45) Eric L: In other words, no Pokemon running around someone's Age? :)
(09/16 10:47:48) Marten: Yeah. Copyright issues.... could be a problem.
(09/16 10:47:50) Whilyam: Right
(09/16 10:47:53) Reelah: yeah
(09/16 10:47:58) J'Kla: One of the issues I am most concered about is stuff inside appearing outside
(09/16 10:47:59) inspector gadget: bye pika
(09/16 10:48:00) Whilyam: Not even P'ohkehnmahn
(09/16 10:48:17) inspector gadget: poekymon
(09/16 10:48:51) Eric L: You mean like something built in someone's Age showing up on a website somewhere?
(09/16 10:48:56) Reelah: yes
(09/16 10:48:57) Whilyam: Town hall meeting, Justin
(09/16 10:49:00) Reelah: that would be bad
(09/16 10:49:09) inspector gadget: really bad
(09/16 10:49:13) Whilyam: Why bad?
(09/16 10:49:34) Gadren: issues of copyright are things that can be solved when they become issues, i say
(09/16 10:49:35) J'Kla: plaigerisim is the dirty word of creative works
(09/16 10:49:40) Myridean: Eric, copyright question: fan created content would fall under whose copyright jurisdiction, GameTap, Cyan or the age creator/age creation group?
(09/16 10:49:53) Reelah: if this is being loogged when its posted are someparts going to be cut out?
(09/16 10:50:07) Eric L: That's a good question, and I'm not entirely sure yet where the answer would be. I guess that would be up to the legal eagles.
(09/16 10:50:14) Eric L: That being said, I would like to ask something related.
(09/16 10:50:21) Reelah: cause i want the raw log
(09/16 10:50:31) Reelah: never mind
(09/16 10:50:46) Eric L: Say that in order for Cyan to be on good legal footing, they have to have jurisdiction over all content created in the world. Do you think that would stifle what you create?
(09/16 10:50:47) inspector gadget: go ahead eric
(09/16 10:50:59) J'Kla: no
(09/16 10:50:59) inspector gadget: i guess so
(09/16 10:51:07) Whilyam: If that is the only way then that'sthe only way
(09/16 10:51:09) inspector gadget: im not so sure
(09/16 10:51:10) Shonda: It wouldn't bother me a bit.
(09/16 10:51:12) Mattias: I think Cyan should have the final word in everything
(09/16 10:51:17) inspector gadget: yes
(09/16 10:51:37) inspector gadget: what is liasons?
(09/16 10:51:38) J'Kla: I allways work inside the Myst/Cyan cannon without interferring with it
(09/16 10:51:42) Whilyam: Cyan should have SOME part in this. perhaps nothing more than approving it and uploading it
(09/16 10:51:44) Reelah: no justin
(09/16 10:52:09) Eric L: We're bouncing ideas around about players being able to create their own content.
(09/16 10:52:12) Reelah: taking about fan created stuff and uru live
(09/16 10:52:14) J'Kla: at the moment Cyan say they want the fans to police this work
(09/16 10:52:23) J'Kla: they dont want the work load
(09/16 10:52:27) Whilyam: Right
(09/16 10:52:31) inspector gadget: ok
(09/16 10:52:37) Whilyam: but they WILL need to deal with it at some point
(09/16 10:52:38) Eric L: Well, a pint can't hold a quart. :)
(09/16 10:52:39) Reelah: yes that would be hard on them
(09/16 10:52:47) inspector gadget: yea
(09/16 10:52:56) Justin: is anyone here from Cyan?
(09/16 10:53:00) Whilyam: Yes
(09/16 10:53:05) Whilyam: Eric is, correct?
(09/16 10:53:07) Reelah: ca grey wolf is
(09/16 10:53:11) Reelah: i think...
(09/16 10:53:18) Gadren: i don't think so, Reelah
(09/16 10:53:20) Whilyam: We're probably both wrong
(09/16 10:53:23) Whilyam: :P
(09/16 10:53:24) Eric L: I'm a consultant for New Products at Turner. I work with GameTap. :)
(09/16 10:53:26) J'Kla: I have no issue with that thats why i would like fan aprooved closed comitee aproval
(09/16 10:53:26) Justin: ok then... i have a bug er error problem
(09/16 10:53:28) Reelah: oh ...sorry
(09/16 10:53:43) Reelah: i read that somewhere on a forum
(09/16 10:54:23) Shonda: If user created content was stored by the creator, would Cyan be able to delete/kill content that was offensive to its own good?
(09/16 10:54:40) J'Kla: no
(09/16 10:54:47) inspector gadget: only if they have permission
(09/16 10:54:48) Shonda: No?
(09/16 10:54:55) Gadren: can you give me an example, Shonda?
(09/16 10:54:58) J'Kla: they could call for changes before it went public
(09/16 10:55:02) Eric L: Well, where content is stored, etc. is more of a development question.
(09/16 10:55:04) Myridean: I think it would have to be in order for it to be protected but Cyan also has this reputation to protect so objectionable material may not be approved. Since I'm not a subscriber of GameTap, I don't know what other games they have and what their ratings are
(09/16 10:55:12) Shonda: Could they have the ability to detatch it from the game itself?
(09/16 10:55:20) J'Kla: thats written into the fan licence
(09/16 10:55:44) inspector gadget: ????
(09/16 10:56:01) Whilyam: Cyan should have the final word in this. They obviously should be able to delete what they choose, regardless of any stifling that might happen.
(09/16 10:56:13) J'Kla: yep
(09/16 10:56:16) inspector gadget: yea,youre right......
(09/16 10:56:17) Eric L: Well, I doubt they'd be draconian about it. :)
(09/16 10:56:25) inspector gadget: draconian?
(09/16 10:56:32) Whilyam: strict
(09/16 10:56:33) Eric L: Overly strict.
(09/16 10:56:35) inspector gadget: ok
(09/16 10:56:45) J'Kla: but they do have editorial level control of the server(shard)
(09/16 10:56:51) Whilyam: I think so
(09/16 10:57:03) Whilyam: They should
(09/16 10:57:10) Whilyam: It's their shard, after all
(09/16 10:57:19) inspector gadget: yea
(09/16 10:57:21) Myridean: True but what has made Cyan different and stand out from other developers is that they do cherish family oriented content
(09/16 10:57:38) J'Kla: and if the community asked for something to be removed they would probably go along
(09/16 10:58:02) Myridean: Myst was created as a game for adults but it's not filled with profanity, mature content and sexuality.
(09/16 10:58:02) Whilyam: Right. And a guild would screen the stuff for anything offensive and anything Cyan didn't want
(09/16 10:58:08) Eric L: Or the creator is required to keep it private?
(09/16 10:58:08) Justin: I'm also having Gametap problems
(09/16 10:58:08) Shonda: I certainly think they should be able to do that, regardless of where it's stored.
(09/16 10:58:24) Gadren: Say, Eric L, is there a way to contact you after this meeting? I'm thinking about writing up a summary of my thoughts for user content
(09/16 10:58:50) Eric L: I'm on the Uru Live forums. You can PM me there.
(09/16 10:59:47) Eric L: Might have to ask them for a bigger inbox. :)
(09/16 11:00:31) Eric L: Okay, well, we're at about an hour, and I should be going soon. Is there any other ideas that anyone wants to shout out?
(09/16 11:00:45) Reelah: is there a place where the RAW RAW chatolg is posted? totaly uncut?
(09/16 11:00:57) Whilyam: the liaison site
(09/16 11:01:01) Reelah: ok
(09/16 11:01:05) inspector gadget: ?
(09/16 11:01:09) Reelah: totally uncut?
(09/16 11:01:09) Whilyam: ?
(09/16 11:01:14) inspector gadget: where?
(09/16 11:01:15) Whilyam: I assume so
(09/16 11:01:23) inspector gadget: what site?
(09/16 11:01:37) Eric L: Isn't that off of MystEmbassy, Wolfie?
(09/16 11:01:43) Gadren: well, all i can think, Eric, is that Cyan/Gametap should really look at things like Newgrounds, YTMND, and especially half-life communities, to see how they do user content
(09/16 11:02:05) Gadren: i believe the site is mystembassy.net/drcliaisons
(09/16 11:02:11) Mattias: I gotta go
(09/16 11:02:13) Reelah: really?
(09/16 11:02:16) Whilyam: I think Wolfie died
(09/16 11:02:21) Myridean: Just a reminder that those who want to relay their input or feedback in regard to the upcoming merger of AgeBuilder, the Guild of Age Crafters and the Vivarium of D'ni meeting will take place this afternoon in the AgeBuilder hood 3pmEDT, NoonPDT
(09/16 11:02:22) Whilyam: Bye Mattias
(09/16 11:02:22) Eric L: Take care, Mattias. Thanks for coming. :)
(09/16 11:02:23) inspector gadget: bye mattias
(09/16 11:02:34) Gadren: he told me he was going to bed, but he stayed here to keep logging
(09/16 11:02:41) Gadren: cya matthias
(09/16 11:02:42) Whilyam: ah
(09/16 11:02:48) Reelah: shorah
(09/16 11:03:07) Eric L: Ah. Well, if Wolfie is still logging, nothing prevents people from staying and continuing to chat about it. :)
(09/16 11:03:26) Eric L: I myself am going to have to get going, but it was really cool chatting with all of you. :)
(09/16 11:03:29) Gadren: :)
(09/16 11:03:30) inspector gadget: well,i have to go 2
(09/16 11:03:31) Gadren: thanks
(09/16 11:03:32) Reelah cheers
(09/16 11:03:34) Gadren waves
(09/16 11:03:35) Whilyam: Bye Eric
(09/16 11:03:37) Shonda: Thanks, Eric
(09/16 11:03:37) Marten: Thanks Eric :)
(09/16 11:03:39) Kimmie Hawk cheers
(09/16 11:03:40) Myridean: It's good to see you again Eric
(09/16 11:03:41) inspector gadget: bye ericL
(09/16 11:03:44) Reelah: shorah b'shem
(09/16 11:03:46) Shonda waves
(09/16 11:03:47) inspector gadget waves
(09/16 11:03:49) Kimmie Hawk: bye EricL
(09/16 11:03:50) Reelah waves
(09/16 11:03:53) Kimmie Hawk waves
(09/16 11:03:55) inspector gadget waves
(09/16 11:03:56) Eric L: Thanks everyone. Hope to see you again real soon :)
(09/16 11:04:02) Reelah: :)
(09/16 11:04:03) inspector gadget waves
(09/16 11:04:05) Eric L waves
(09/16 11:04:05) edwin: bye Eric
(09/16 11:04:06) J'Kla: cya bye
(09/16 11:04:08) inspector gadget: bye
(09/16 11:04:11) Reelah: bye
(09/16 11:04:13) inspector gadget waves
(09/16 11:04:17) Myridean waves
(09/16 11:04:27) inspector gadget: i have to go 2
(09/16 11:04:29) J'Kla: log closed
(09/16 11:04:33) Gadren: :)
(09/16 11:04:36) Reelah: ok
(09/16 11:04:40) inspector gadget: bye
(09/16 11:04:43) Shonda: I wish I were't so worried about this.
(09/16 11:04:43) Gadren: I'll get this chatlog up on the liaison site ASAP, ok?